Writers on What Gives Them Hope for the Human-Animal Relationship

Popular authors of books about animals share what gives them hope for our relationship with dogs, cats, and other animals. Bonus episode of The Pawsitive Post in Conversation.

By Zazie Todd PhD

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Writers talk about what brings them hope for the human-dog, human-cat, and human-animal bond.

You can listen below or wherever you get your podcasts (Apple, Spotify) or scroll down to read their answers.

This is a bonus episode featuring Patricia McConnell PhD, Jean Donaldson, Marc Bekoff PhD, and all of the writers who took part in Bark! Fest, the book festival for animal lovers. Together they share their insights on what is cause for hope. Bark! Fest celebrated the launch of my book Bark! The Science of Helping Your Anxious, Fearful, or Reactive Dog, which is out now.

A few years back, I heard one of my favourite authors speak at an online literary festival. Amin Maalouf is a member of the Academie Francaise and the author of novels including Samarkand and The Rock of Tanios. He said, “I think the duty of a writer is to have lucidity and hope. If you spread despair, it’s best not to speak at all.” So that's what made me think to ask this question of everyone.

You can find recordings of the full panel discussions in our back catalogue or watch the panels on Youtube. 

Mentioned in the episode: Finding hope in dog training and animal behaviour (Psych Today) 

Hope for our relationship with dogs, cats, and other animals

The books are available from all good bookstores including Bookshop (which supports independent bookstores in the US) and my Amazon store. 

Patricia B. McConnell

The Education of Will and The Other End of the Leash.

Dogs?!! I have so many answers to that and we covered some of them. This change in perspective and this new compassion and this science, us using really good science to understand our dogs and drop out of the humans as dogs dominant primates model. 

But honestly, it's just dogs, just, they just never stop amazing me. They just never, ever, ever stop.

I just posted on Facebook about a project that a friend of mine, Melissa McCue McGrath, I think she might be listening. She has been a part of teaching dogs to find the eggs of the spotter lanternfly, which is an incredibly devastating invasive insect.

I mean, they just never, ever stop giving and giving and giving. So dogs.

Jean Donaldson

The Culture Clash.

I thought a lot about this, and I keep coming back to the demand and the hunger out there for, Zazie, for books like yours, where the central idea is happiness of dogs and cats and the new book that you're about to launch. What we're here for is their feeling of safety in the world. Nobody should have to live with fear.

Way back in the day, the books were all about how to control your dog. It's obedience. Obedience basically oppresses them. People don't want that anymore, which is, oh my gosh, what a great sign.

They want their dogs to have good lives. They want their dogs to, of course, to help them fit into our world rather than to just be under our thumbs.

Zazie Todd PhD

Bark! The Science of Helping Your Anxious, Fearful, or Reactive Dog.  

How many people want to learn more about their dogs and how to help their dogs. And in fact, all the people who've come and signed up for Bark! Fest and all of the amazing authors who are taking part in it because everybody is so keen to learn, to hear everybody talk, and it's just fantastic.

It brings me a lot of hope.

Marc Bekoff, PhD 

Dogs Demystified and The Emotional Lives of Animals.

Zazie hit it. All the questions that come into me that over the years have become much more sophisticated, which means that at least I think more and more people are learning more and more about dogs.

And what gives me hope is when I ask people a question about their dogs and they say they don't know. Because I wrote an essay called the more I know, the more I say I don't know.

It's not meant to be off putting that it's so complex. I mean, it is more complex than a lot of people make it out to be. But I love that more and more people are asking ethological questions, if you will.

So I just say go to a dog park, pull out your iPhone or whatever thing you carry, and they take videos, they analyze them and they send them to me. And, I love it. 

And I have a whole lot of people looking at scent marking patterns and humping and mounting patterns because you're not going to get a federal grant to study humping and mounting.

But really that's what gives me hope, is how many people. I mean, because of all the work that you all do and other participants in this series are putting it out to the public and people are getting keenly interested.

And the bottom line for me is that the more you know, the better that will be, the dog human relationship.

Cat Warren

What the Dog Knows.  

Well, I mean, I can only second what Zazie and Mark said. And I see it actually every day when, sometimes when we're just driving and more and more when I see a person walking with a dog, you can actually see the relationship between them. 

And it feels as though--now remember, it's a small portion of the whole dog population--but I actually can see the progress in people when they're going out with their dogs. They are more connected or they are on harness or the dogs are being allowed to sniff and, and explore a little bit. 

So all of those things, and then one final thing is that this science is really interesting and we are starting to learn and dog training is actually getting better at that sort of upper end.

Ade Schoon, who's a marvelous trainer in the Netherlands and has done a ton of work and I love this quote, she said sometimes that she can almost see a dog thinking, "Is that all you want me to do? I can do so much more".

Right? And I think that that's really hopeful.

Alexis Devine

I Am Bunny.  

I mean, every time I meet a new dog, I feel hopeful because I learned something new. You know, I feel like part of being human is just learning and growing, and dogs have become such a special and integral part of my life that I now can't stop learning. It's all I want to do.

And so I'm hopeful that through my platform, I can help to educate and encourage people to have a little bit more empathy and to do independent research about how we can best support non humans as captive animals.

Teresa J. Rhyne

Poppy in the Wild. 

I think stuff like this gives me hope for the dog human relationship to just know that, you know, people are caring more and more about dogs, caring about learning about dogs and treating dogs as dogs.

And to give a shout out to your book, Zazie. Reading it really helped me with Poppy because Poppy's a very nervous kind of dog. She loves to just be home. She loves to just be with her people.

And I think we were a little bit like, okay, how do we help her get over this? How do we help her get over this? Instead of what Alexis just said, and what you say in the book too, like, we gotta just let her be her. And if this is what she's comfortable with, then this is what she's comfortable with, you know.

And I'm probably not a good influence on her because I'm not comfortable with crowds either. So I'm like, I get it, I get it. Let's stay home. 

And yeah, so I look back even to when I was a kid. I've always been a dog lover, but the way our dogs were treated then is very different than the way they're treated now.

Just in that timeframe. Okay, that's 50 years. But it's just in that timeframe.

I think we've learned so much more about dogs and we treat them so much better. Although rescue is still. I mean, our shelter system is still such a huge problem.

But I have hope. I have hope.

Lili Chin

Kitty Language.

What gives me hope is that there are all these wonderful books out. There's a lot more material, there's a lot more educational information available now than before.

Mikel Delgado PhD

Play With Your Cat!.

For me, it's that more people than ever are advocating for their cats wellbeing. Like the field of animal behaviour, of cat behavior, specifically is growing and more people want to be involved.

So it's all good.

Lucy Hoile

the book your cat wishes you would read.  

I don't have much to add. I just think that overall there's more interest in cats, and of course, that has its positives and negatives, but I think that there are more people interested in making their cats happy.

They want to know, does my cat love me? Is my cat happy?

Pilley Bianchi

For the Love of Dog, illustrated by Calum Heath.

Oh, well, first of all, the fact that people love their dogs. We're really seeing a lot of that now, just globally, and in the past decade, we've had more research about dogs than any part of our history.

So this is really pointing us in the right direction. And so I believe in science and I believe in the mystical, and those are coming together.

Wendy Lyons Sunshine

Tender Paws.

Seeing all the different approaches that practitioners are taking now that are really weaving in understanding of trauma, understanding of attachment, understanding of neurobiology, understanding pain that's undiagnosed. 

There's so much wealth of information that we're getting, and like Carri here has helped contribute to this body of knowledge too. Just so much we're learning that we can bring to bear to help.

Carri Westgarth PhD

The Happy Dog Owner.  

I was thinking very similar things, really. You know, that greater awareness and enthusiasm that dog owners seem to have now. They really are trying to do the best for their dog.

They might not always get the right information, but the availability of equipment now for dogs and their owners and educational tools such as this webinar is just phenomenal compared to what it was 20 years ago.

Just think now, you know, 20 years ago, all of the dogs that used to walk around on thin choke chains, and now pretty much every dog you see is on a harness.

And there's so many different types of harnesses when there was basically one for a long time.

It's just there's so much more choice out there for dog owners who are really trying to do the best for their dog.

Philipp Schott DVM

Eleven Huskies: A Dr. Bannerman Vet Mystery.  

There's just so much interest now and you know, dogs are no longer viewed as a child's pet or something in the backyard or in many cases, something that, you know, a creature that has a functional value.

Really the movement of pets, dogs in particular, cats also, into the centre of human families is something. I've been in practice 34 years now.

You know, 34 years ago, if somebody said mom or dad in reference to their dog, that would have resulted in snickers. People would have felt very self conscious. It was very rare. 

It is the norm now. People understand these are not like human children. Right. There is a distinction, but the change in language speaks to a change in how we value them and how we view them. And that can only be a positive.

Louisa Scarr

Gallows Wood.  

Yeah, when I saw this question was coming, I had a long think about it. And often when you look on the internet you get a lot of people either ranting about dogs or lots of, you know, in the comments section there's awful stuff or dog trainers who are trainers.

But actually when I go out on my walk with Max, I experience the opposite. I experience some really welcoming, friendly people who happy to chat and talk about their dogs. And you know, I know the names of the dogs, I have no idea what they're called, but I know their dogs names and some really lovely dogs.

And the majority are off lead, under control off lead and happy to play with Max. And it's a really positive interaction. 

So I think that gives me sort of hope for the future in that people are sensible. We do have common sense. We know what we're doing with our dogs. And the majority of the interactions I have very positive.

Antony Johnston

The Dog Sitter Detective Takes the Lead.

So my answer is actually very similar to Philipp's and Louisa's, along the same lines.

One of the reasons I'm very interested in your book, Zazie, is because one of my old lurchers was a very reactive dog, to the point that we had to muzzle him when we walked him in public. And as a result,
we saw a lot of different approaches to dog training. 

And one of the things that gives me hope is that I've noticed In the last five to 10 years, negative reinforcement training is really on the outs, like almost nobody does it anymore. And it's all about positive reinforcement training, which we found to be the answer with our dog,
with both of our lurchers. 

In fact, positive reinforcement was so much more effective than negative reinforcement. And that gives me hope in that I think it's part of people seeing dogs, as Philipp said, as part of the family, as Louisa said, people getting to know their dogs.

You know, I think it's part of people just sort of accepting that dogs are dogs, but they have brains, they're not property. Like here in the UK, dogs are literally legally seen as property. If somebody steals your dog, or even abuses it or something, they will be done for theft as if it's property, not for any kind of kidnapping or anything. 

There's a lot of people fighting to change that at the moment. Have been for years.

So I think the trend towards positive reinforcement, I think it just sort of reinforces that that attitude is changing, and I think that can only be a good thing.

Sarah Chauncey

P.S. I Love You More Than Tuna, illustrated by Francis Tremblay.  

I think, at the risk of bringing politics into this, that cats are saving democracy right now. Cats and cat ladies of all genders. I use ladies as metaphorically.

I think we're starting to see that. I mean, in 2024, we used to be like, okay, humans. Humans are the be all and end all.

And it's like, can we really believe that our species is like the apex of evolution? You know, we're really starting to recognize the sentience of other beings and their autonomy. And that gives me a lot of hope.

Sassafras Patterdale (Lowrey)

Claw This Journal.

I mean I can't top that. I think especially as the only American in here. Yes, please. Saving democracy.

But no, beyond that. I think that one of the things I think a lot about is I've been involved in dog sports for 25 years, a long time. 

When I started writing professionally about dogs and cats, the response I would get when I would talk about cat enrichment or cat training or cat activities of any sort was often sort of this scoffing laughter and people would just be like, that's ridiculous. This is just one more bizarre thing you're doing.

And I don't get that response nearly so frequently anymore. And so just on a very personal level it's something that gives me lot of hope about cats and the ways in which I think culturally, our understanding of their emotional and physical and needs is behind what we understand about dogs. 

But I think we're getting there and that's been really exciting to see.

Rachel Wells

Alfie the Christmas Cat.  

Well, I agree with all that and I personally think Alfie would think he could single handedly say democracy by the way.

But everything you said, I mean I love looking at the history of cats. And we look at the evolution and I think that we're almost going back to when cats were a bit more worshipped and a bit more given more importance because it seems to have dipped away a bit.

You know, they were gods in Egyptian times often. And then we look at now and I think we're getting more that understanding. We're giving them more of a voice.

We really are taking time to not just say oh, it's just a cat, but to properly get to know that cat. And I think that that's really the wonderful thing that I hope will continue to happen.

Rev. Sarah A. Bowen

Sacred Sendoffs.

The joy of seeing a squirrel bound across the yard.

E.B. Bartels

Good Grief.

I actually think social media brings me hope because I joke it's the last nice place on the Internet when people post about their pet losses. It's such a wonderful space for people to reach out and connect.

Karen Fine DVM

The Other Family Doctor.  

So I feel like forums like this bring me hope because I feel like it's more and more recognized how profound and intimate and encouraging these relationships can be and how privileged we are to have them.

And I feel like that's being more and more recognized, which is wonderful.

Kristi Benson

I think the thing that gives me hope right now, today, is the really great work that's being done by my Indigenous colleagues on work that's actually outside of the dog world.

It's on really heavy, hard topics. It's on Indian residential schools and murdered and missing Indigenous women and girls.

And they're just doing such good work and having such good public conversations that I think are really bringing us all up to a whole new standard of how to talk about each other and how to take care of each other and how to look at injustices and really deal with them in a head on way.

I was just reading an article from a colleague of mine, Dr. Crystal Fraser, about Indian residential schools and the children there. And just the types of conversations and the way she was telling this story and the way that she invited dialogue, I just, I felt really, I mean, sad, saddened and terrified and horrified, but also just really like motivated. 

And so I think that looking to the women around us and to the scholars around us who doing all of these types of work about a vast array of topics, I think that that gives me hope because I immediately thought about how do we have these types of conversations about dog training? 

How do we have these conversations about the bonds that we have between the animals in our care and the animals that we have like, bought and turned into pets that live with us in our houses? So I guess that's sort of circuitous.

But when you asked me that question, that's the headspace I was in. And it did really seem to come together for me.

The interview highlights have been lightly edited for content and style.

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